Wiggins provides insight into owners’ stance on aero kits
IndyCar commentary — By More Front Wing Staff on May 5, 2011 9:08 amTo hear the full audio of this interview, use the player below or search for More Front Wing on iTunes.
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
*
Keith Wiggins, owner of HVM Racing, sat down with More Front Wing to discuss the owners’ perspective on the debate regarding their vote to delay multiple aero kits to 2013.
Wiggins set the stage by laying out the motivations behind each side of the argument. “I think it needs to be said from the very beginning that the whole dialogue between the teams and Randy [Bernard] has been exceptionally good — a very good, mature, and business-like discussion. So, there’s not been anything heated about this. And we all have a tremendous amount of respect for Randy. He wants from the commercial side what he believes is right, the best opportunity for the Series, which of course for all of us is to excite the fans and bring new fans on. But from our side, it’s important to know that things have changed. Life’s tough and everything costs money, and that has an implication to all of our businesses, and it’s just trying to balance those two in a way that’s acceptable for everybody.
“Having been in the Series for three years, if there’s anything I dislike, it’s this car. It’s prehistoric, and it’s pretty ugly and not a nice car to deal with because it’s old technology. From my background in Europe in racing, go back a few years and we all had five new cars a year and we would always be developing them. We would love that. But then, when someone gives you the bill for it, we go, hmm, actually, it’s not too healthy at the moment. So, you have to balance that.”
From the owners’ perspective, the delay in rolling out the aero kits — which had most recently been estimated to see kits launched in time for the 2012 Indianapolis 500 and not for the beginning of the season — creates additional costs that are too great a burden for smaller teams. “The problem,” Wiggins clarified, “is that once the car’s produced in December, that doesn’t give [other manufacturers] time to produce kits. So, then everybody has to go out, buy their cars with the Dallara kits on, and every entrant will have a car and a spare car, so now you’ve just invested $385,000 times two for one driver, and then you’ve got to buy spare front wings, spare rear wings, spare sidepods, all of the spares that we’ve had over the years. Now we’re going to do four or five races, and then all the kits will come out, so therefore we’ve got to go back, buy two kits, one for each car, and then go out and buy spare wings, spare rear wings, spare body work. So, in the space of four months, five months, we’re probably going to have spent in excess of half a million dollars just on the aero parts.
“This is where the concern between the rich teams and the less is. There’s going to be testing during the winter in which people are going to develop their cars and go testing, and the ones who can afford it will do a lot more testing and a lot more CFD on the car in Dallara form. And then, once you start racing, new kits will be coming out for Indy, so then you’ve got to start doing development work and understanding the new kits and the performance of that, and there’s probably only two to maybe three teams that could afford to be doing all of that development while you’re still going to four races.”
Wiggins points out that the price tag for a single aero kit doesn’t fully represent the cost each team will need to take on. “Someone said to me this morning, it’s $70,000 for a kit. Well, yes, it is. It would be nice if you just had one car a year and you just bought one body kit, but you’re buying the Dallara kits because you need them to start the season. Originally, you could buy the car without the kits and then add the kit of your choice. Now that they won’t be ready, you’re buying two kits when you buy your cars.
“You don’t just run around with one [aero kit]. You do tend to hit things, unfortunately. We’d like not to. But you have to have painted in the pits your spare wings and all of your equipment that goes with it. And then, four races down the road, come Indy, they release the new kits. You’ve then got to go out and buy at least two kits for your two cars for one driver, and then you’ve got to buy all your spare wings and all the stuff you keep in again. It’s a double whammy, so it’s not $70,000. You’re already at four kits — you would have bought two anyway, so there’s another $140,000 worth of bare kits. And then, by the time you’ve bought spare front and rear wings and spare sidepods and whatever, there’s probably another $75,000 or so. So, it starts to ramp up the expense when a lot of teams have had a lot of their equipment and spares bought over several years and they’ve got a stock of those.
“And, again, we’re not even discussing all the suspension and all the gears and all the hundreds of things that go with a new car. We’re already going to all be buying all of those.”
So, what’s changed from the time of the ICONIC Committee announcement to now that has led to the owners realizing that rolling out aero kits next season is unfeasible? Does it really just come down to the delay? “I don’t want to get into too many details of some of the discussions behind closed doors,” Wiggins replies. “All I would say is it hasn’t just reared its head. And some of the decisions put forward by the League and the ICONIC Committee, I’m sure that not everybody was in agreement with the concepts back then because always costs are a concern.
“With the tire situation, there was an issue with Firestone where everybody went back and everybody was unanimously happy to pay a lot more for our tires than to risk going somewhere else. So, we are fairly rational in these decisions of what’s best for the overall Series.”
Would the owners have been amenable to accepting these costs if there had been no delays in the availability of the new aero kits that forced the purchase of additional parts midway through the season? “If you’re asking me personally,” Wiggins responds, “the answer is yes because we’re investing in what we’re going to race and we’re then investing in and we’re gearing up for everything around that specification. I would say they would all say yes, but I can’t speak for them. The answer to your question from me is 100% yes.”
Wiggins takes the opportunity to present further points in favor of the owners’ position. “Teams need teams to race against, and when you have a situation where some teams maybe wouldn’t be able to afford the scenario that’s proposed and you’re prepared to lose quite a few teams because they can’t afford it, then I wouldn’t think that’s good for the fans, either. We all want to stay here and try and compete and build the momentum that’s been started already.
“Having kits the following year in a lot of ways would be more exciting because it will be another new thing. And when this car comes out and it goes to the Speedway, the cars are pretty much trimmed out. They have a single-element rear wing, a single-element front wing. There’s not lots of bits like you have on road cars for air direction and diffusers. You could have three kits there and you may well need a magnifying glass to see the difference between them. You’re not going to see huge differences because most people are going to come to the same conclusion when you’re running such small pieces of body work on the car. So, we could be making a lot of concern over almost nothing. And even yet, we don’t know how many manufacturers will want to invest in the kits. We may not have more than one kit available to us.”
Wiggins closed by encouraging dialogue between fans, team owners, and Series officials. “Ask us any questions, try and understand every side of our sport, and try and see what we’re doing in the best way we can to get to where we want to go. This isn’t us trying to pull some trick. We’ve been through difficult times. We’re coming out of them. We have a lot of good, positive direction. We’re going to have a lot of exciting new cars and engines. Just please understand, for us there are some big challenges which some of us may not be able to overcome if we can’t control it in a business fashion.
“We’re not looking for sympathy, but we’re just looking for people to understand what’s involved here and the risks and the strain it puts on the teams and how we can do this in a gradual way that keeps us all alive to compete in the Series that we love, to give you guys something better, to allow us to move forward with the kits to make it better.
“By talking like we are now, we hope that people understand a bit more about what is really involved and how things came about. We want the fans to be involved, just the same as we’re passionate about our sport — just to get everybody to honestly understand what is involved in it so that you can make an honest judgment of what we’re trying to do.”
Tags: HVM Racing, ICONIC Committee, Keith Wiggins, Verizon IndyCar Series - Technical
Great interview MFW!
My only point from a fan’s perspective is this: The (few remaining diehard) fans understand there are significant associated costs and logistics of with regard to testing etc.
The point Keith fails to address is that all teams will be buying the Dallara upfront and nobody is FORCING them to buy the second manufacturer’s kits, which is to assume there would be some significant reason those options will be better than the Dallara.
Not every team is the same and has ever been able to buy all options available, that’s just the way it is, but with kits so new, maybe limited testing is the answer so all teams have more similar amounts of test time.
I also think that, from the nature of competition, we would see more than indistinguishable differences in the kits. We’re also talking about a visual correlation of the manufacturers to the fans which will be also attached to the performance of the car.
Let’s not forget, there was a visual difference between a Panoz and a Dallara, yet they were very competitive on high-speed ovals, where, to use Keith’s logic, they should’ve been more similar in look to be competitive.
I understand his points, just didn’t hear an answer to the question of how there now is so much more cost (aside from tires) that what was originally assumed or should’ve been planned for.
Agree 100% with what you said here, DZ. I can sympathize with what Wiggins is saying, but my answer to that is also “well, if you can’t afford to not just buy the Chevy (or Honda or Oreca or whatever kit #2 would be for your team) and then also do the CFD or wind tunnel testing and whatever other development testing you’d need to do, then just don’t do it. Run the Dallara package. Let Roger and Chip and whoever else can afford it do that stuff for 2012 (while they possibly detract from their Dallara development program and compromise their own competitiveness; anybody remember how Penske did in 1999 when they were trying to alternate development between the Penske chassis and the Lola?), see where the alternate kits sort out for the rest of the year, and then buy whichever kits you deem to be the best ones for 2013. Just don’t take away the POSSIBILITY of different looking cars for 2012.”
Really, if we only wind up with 5-6 cars that look different from the other 20 cars on the grid from Indy forward in 2012, I can live with that. I just hate the possibility of a guarantee of identical cars for the entirety of 2012.
Another great interview, MFW’ers. Between the “current events” interviews and the CIS, you are truly knocking it out of the park for the Month of May. Not that I really needed any extra provocation, but I am getting seriously jacked for Indy.
Thanks for the encouraging words, guys — they’re greatly appreciated!
As for the issue at hand, I’ve been saying from the beginning that I don’t understand why fans are in such a froth over having different-looking cars. I don’t care if the cars look identical in the least as long as they don’t perform identically. I really think this whole issue has placed the emphasis on a very superficial element of the changes the Series has lined up. I’m far more interested in how the difference in engines will play out. The tub is going to be spec, and that includes the sidepods and the undertray. The front and rear wings could have little to no impact on the performance of the cars whatsoever. It’s all optics.
But to speak further to Speedgeek’s point, if the aero kits do end up making a difference, having only Penske and Ganassi buy them part way through 2012 because they’re the only ones who can afford them means they get almost a full season of a head start, which will put us right back to where we are today in terms of their dominance. It sounded to me that Keith was saying the team owners are all working together to ensure that one or two rich teams don’t get that jump on the less rich ones as a way to regulate competition and keep it fair. To my mind, it’s actually quite a smart, broader-picture way of looking at what the Series needs to succeed in the long-term.
I didn’t go into this interview looking to side with the owners (I didn’t go in looking to take a side at all), but once I had all of the viewpoints in front of me, their side of things made a great deal of sense.
Very true, all of that. A few folks have touched on my replies to those thoughts, which are:
1) If you look back through the recordbooks, up until the late-’90s, entry lists were littered with teams running year old equipment, or one team scraping together a few bucks and engineering know-how and rolling the dice on their own combo (I’m thinking Rahal/Truesports here, but also Derrick Walker’s Porsches, Pat Patrick’s Alfa Romeo, and on and on). There’s never, until the last 4 years, been any guarantee that every team (or even most teams) would have the same combo that Penske has. Sometimes that works in Roger’s favor (1984, 1994, about 15 other years I could list). Sometimes not (1995, 1999, 2005). If a KV can scrape together the cash to get Lotus aerokits, or just get freebie kits from Lotus, and they wind up being the magic combo, well, awesome. We get a lot of TK, Sato and Viso in victory lane. Teams have always done what they can with what they have, all while striving to do better.
2) If the kits wind up making basically no difference, as I sort of suspect they might (as you say, we’ll likely see far more difference in the performance levels of the engines), then Roger and Chip could go down their alternate aero routes but just be dumping cash down a well for 0.5 MPH. In that case, the other teams have a 4 race head start on developing setups on THEM. There’s nothing that says that their search for an unfair advantage is going to automatically see them far ahead of the field.
One more thought on the smaller teams winding up waiting until 2013 to get their kits while Penske and Ganassi get theirs in May 2012: is it not true that the aero kit manufacturers can release updated kits for the start of every season? Aren’t we likely to wind up with a somewhat levelled playing field every year?
A lot of keith’s argument revolves around a core assumption that I am not sure I would take at face value. That the new Aero kits rolled out will necessarily be better than the original Dallara kit. If this assumption doesn’t hold and no one is forcing anyone to buy a kit, it seems that for a small team the optimal strategy is to run the initial kit, then let the big teams experiment with the new kits, who knows perhaps the Penske Chevy kit lays an egg…it’s happened before. But if not then they can weigh the pros and cons ofswitching mid year or next.
Ultimately I think teams are looking for one of the two initial kits to be free, part of the Complete Dallara car or part of the engine lease or both…
I agree with both DZ and TheSpeedgeek, but at the same time I can also hear what Keith Wiggins is saying as well.
It seems that very little on the current Dallara chassis will translate to the new one, which means teams will have to buy a lot of new equipment and parts to repair those which get damaged next season, on top of the cost of the new Dallara and new engines and more expensive Firestone tyres-the European way of spelling it. And I can certainly understand if the teams are wary of the lack of time to develop the aero kits.
Having said that, the aero kit announcement wasn’t made yesterday. The teams have had a year or so to prepare, and while I do understand the cost concern-none of us truly knows what the financial status of the teams is nor do we know about their sponsorship situations, if they have them-I also agree with what DZ and The Speedgeek said. No one is forcing a team to buy a second aero kit if they don’t want to or can’t afford it. In other series-including CART and now in the DTM-not everyone has the latest and greatest equipment. They have what they can afford given their budgetary constraints.
My understanding-I may be wrong on this-is that the chassis will come from Dallara with their aero kit-and then the teams have the option of purchasing another one if they so choose.
Ultimately, I trust that Randy Bernard and his staff will find a fair and equitable solution to this issue. Which means people on both sldes will hate it. That’s life.
You all beat me to the punch!
As I read the interview, I thought that Mr. W needs not buy newly-released kits and that the chassis (and aero kits?) can be used year after year! This is not an age in which teams buy new chassis every year! As they’re running these ol’ Dallaras they can cultivate sponsorship and save money to buy the next generation chassis. And while they’re racing the next-gen Dallaras year after year after year, they can spend on aero bits the money that they’re not spending to buy new chassis each year.
If I haven’t said it before, I must agree w Speedgeek – you guys are really hitting your stride here.
Love the mix of print and audio interview and your timeliness of subject matter. (*whispers* – yo’re already a half step ahead of the newest ‘news’). Independent journo can be better than ‘bigstream’ media for this very reason, and I appreciate your equitable journo-approach while keeping the opinion in check.
I hear what you’re saying, Steph, and on some level, I agree with your and Keith’s stance.
However, I would respectfully submit this point. Life-and sports-aren’t always fair. In any sport, there are people and teams that have advantages over others. I have no problem with competitive balance, but there will always be haves and have nots in sports. The most successful motorsports series in the world, Formula One, has ALWAYS had a caste system of upper and lower class teams. Even CART and the IRL had their upper and lower end teams. That’s just the way it has been and is.
Yea I understand the cost problem but no one is going to force them to buy the new kits. A funny note it’s seems that they want an equitable situation with new car funny thing now is the we have a spec chassis and things aren’t equitable now only three teams have a chance to win on ovals. For as long as there has been racing there have been have and have not’s. How bout this lets just delay the areo kits till Indy cause in the past thats where new cars debuted anyways. Lets run the old Dallara’s for the first four races. That might be a cool compromise.
Great interview, “99”; and I think that Wiggins did a very good job articulating the reasoning behind the position he is taking . . . and I will assume he is speaking for most/all of the other owners . . . on the aero kit issue. I can now see and understand the problems that will undoubtedly arise because of the new kits not being available at the beginning of the season. So it does seem to make more sense to hold off until the following season. I mean, sure, I was looking forward to cars with different looks like most everyone else, and INDYCAR all but promised that it was going to happen in 2012; but as facts develop and circumstances change, sometimes we must allow reason to overshadow expectation. And I agree with you that the engines may play a greater role in car performance than the aero kits; so if the decision is made to hold off on the aero kits until 2013, we may still be pleasantly surprised next season at the differences in car performance and competitiveness over what we have been experiencing these last half-dozen years. Indeed, almost anything should be an improvement over the status quo.
I understand his point, however I do not see where he is required to buy a new kit in May of 2012. It seems like it is optional. Majority of teams will not buy new kits in May, so what is the problem?
I don’t get Kieth’s problem. As far as we know, the aero kits confirmed for 2012 are all from the car companies (Chevy, Lotus, Honda) and thus you’d only get one anyways, plus the Dallara. So if everyone starts with Dallara (which should be competitive) then in May you can make the choice to add another or not. Unless ORECA joins in as ORECA and not making an aero kit for someone else that’s all you’d be able to do anyways, whether in May or January or whenever you buy them. And who’s not going to take a Dallara aero kit, just to be safe? So again, his point doesn’t make a ton of sense. Remember, you get TWO kits, so if one sucks, just switch to the other. You’ll have all of May to get the new one sorted.
Mr Wiggens is saying something I had not heard before. That is that new kits will be coming out for Indy and not available before. This is the first I have heard of that. In a way I think it is only appropriate that the new kits premier at Indy since it has been at the forefront of so much inovation over the years. It just makes sense for them to premier there. The rules said the teams could pick two kits to use during the year anyway. Are they saying they want to change that rule too?
As for the costs involved –
The Dallara safety cell does not come with an aero kit by default. From the announcement last year:
The rolling chassis that Dallara builds will have a fixed cost of $349,000. If Dallara builds the aero kits, the total bill will be $385,000, (36K for 1st aero kit) and the first 28 buyers can get a $150,000 discount (if they are based in Indiana). The aero kits that others make can cost no more than $70,000. Nothing says a team has to buy the Dallara kit.
And think about this. For the part time teams like Sarah Fisher racing (or Dragon this year) that are going to start or only run at Indy, if the new aero kits might be better than the Dallara they only have to buy that one. That may make it easier for an underfunded team to compete effectively.
I disagree with you guys on much, but MFW is the best of any Indy presentations I’ve found. You are prime.
Thank you for having an Owner on to describe that side of the argument.
Top class response to the issue.
Clear and fair job on it.
I know that I posted something similar to Keith’s argument on the Track Forum (Dave Mc) ahead of this.
Nice to hear him backing me up. Not on numbers, but in general.
The best thing Keith said was “Help?”.
That’s the best position for me, as a fan, to take.
The translation is “patience”.
My prophecy is that one day you’ll see this as pivotal moment in IndyCar.
This same system will eventually be repeated to improve the competitive nature of the sport.
We haven’t even started to talk about how the deals and track management could effect the races.
Mark this one, guys.
A great interview in your history as well.
Well done.
[…] there you should go back a couple of weeks and check out the interview with Keith Wiggins explaining the teams’ perspective on aero kits, and also this superb Twitter guide which […]